Stop trying to make up excuses....the Zune was NEVER competing with the iPod.

[boyio1992]

You know its funny how people talk about how bad the zune sucks (on a site for zunes?) and how inferior it is well lets wait till they release the, i dunno wat apple is up to now 15th gen Microsoft zune then compare the zune to the ipod.

[xBeRx]

Microsoft is known for making products to compete with everyone else, aside from Windows itself, which even then has started to do.

Microsoft, used to be all about PC's and strictly PC's.

When the gaming world launched, PC's where at large for a lot of business people. Never was a computer going to be used for home entertainment, hell there was even sayings that "there will never be a computer in every home" and yet, here we all are.

The gaming world did what it did, Nintendo, Sony, and Sega all had there consoles competing with one and other at around the same times. As this went on, PC games became more and more popular, and eventually came out with the XBOX. The XBOX being a competitor in the gaming genre.

But, wait, didn't Sony, Nintendo, and Sega start around the same time, henceforth they had quite a bit of a head start in there gaming world? Looks like Microsoft had quite a gap to fill, and man has it. Other then Nintendo, I would say Microsoft did a damn good job at leaving Sony in the dust.

Just because someone has more experience then another, doesn't mean that the under dog can't win. Microsoft has shown worthy in other fields, and seeing as the Zune is only in its second year, compared to iPods lifespan since Oct 21, MS has plenty of time to bring down iPod down, just as it has other things.

If MS can over come 3 gaming consoles that had about 10 years of rep, whos to say they can't rape a silly MP3 player that's only had 7 years of rep?

MS FTW.

P.S Apple's Ipod is horribly emo, White background, black text. Ew.

The touch might have some innovation, but the last thing I want to do is have my finger pritns all over the screen of my MP3 player.

[DaveWorld]

^^

"But, wait, didn't Sony, Nintendo, and Sega start around the same time, henceforth they had quite a bit of a head start in there gaming world? Looks like Microsoft had quite a gap to fill, and man has it. Other then Nintendo, I would say Microsoft did a damn good job at leaving Sony in the dust.

Just because someone has more experience then another, doesn't mean that the under dog can't win. Microsoft has shown worthy in other fields, and seeing as the Zune is only in its second year, compared to iPods lifespan since Oct 21, MS has plenty of time to bring down iPod down, just as it has other things."

The problem with that is: Apple is not and will not be standing still waiting for MS to overtake them like a Sony.

So many love to cite the XBox's success against the Sony Playstation as proof of Microsoft ability to overtake an incumbent. Was that really such a great success story we have to recite so often, and as if MS has not have failures also? C'mon a no name company with money to burn like MS can compete in the gaming space. Sign a few killer exclusives (oh boy did Bungie/Halo help!), have the same or lower price as competitor and be ready to be in the red for many many and MANY years, waiting for your competitor to slip. The gaming market is not near as competitive as the DAP market (only Sony, MS, Nintendo competing compare to countless companies selling DAPs worldwide). And also the DAP market is not as closed-in as the gaming market. With DRM-Free music gaining more and more traction, consumers will feel more free to try other brand of players without the fear of DRM locking. Which means Microsoft will need to work much harder and would definitely need to bring out a MUST have device to come near to catching the iPods, especially the iPod Touch. Not an easy feat if you ask me......

[An InnO]

Hey guys. I have a great idea...lets have a conference to take down Apple.

[xBeRx]

That still doesn't ignore the fact that it did conquer. Sony didn't stand there and did nothing about it, haven't they released like, 5 different versions of the PS3 to try and outsell the 360? And bringing up Bungie and Halo into the ring, they hardly had nothing to do when the xbox first launched seeing as hardly anyone played Halo at all due to the lack of xbox live compatibility. Many of us whom did stick through and through for Halo had to play through XBC. Hell, to this day I remember all the flaming I'd get at school about how much of a pussy I was for having an xbox and not a PS2.

Fact, Microsoft does have the money, but as you said, they have the money to burn to make their products great, so why haven't they? The Zune30, Zune80, and Zune 4/8 where never even made to compete against the iPod Touch so you can't even bring that into the fire. You can't compare both due to the fact that they both have different hardware, as to how Zune 4/8 clearly competes with iPod Nano's and Zune 30/80 compare to iPod 30/60.

If anything, this will be the year when MS brings out there version of the "iPod Touch" seeing as iPod is the creator of everything, and everything after that is just a ripped off version of it. :roll:

[scarface_74]

The console market is a lot different from the PMP market.  The console market works in five year cycles.  Developing a console is a four year effort and then you only have one chance to get it right each half decade.  If you make a mistake, you're done until the next cycle.  Sony didn't make a mistake with the PS3.  The PS3 helped Sony win the HD war.  The licensing of the next generation HD DVD format will bring in far more revenue than licensing game sells.  Now that Blu-Ray is the clear winner, you'll see a lot of people (including myself) by PS3's just because it is the only future proof Blu-Ray player.

MS isn't even trying with the Zune.  Since November of 2006 when the Zune was introduced, MS has added nothing but wireless syncing, client software that is worse than the original, and two me-too flash players that no one is buying.  During the same time period, Apple has introduced the iPhone, which is already outselling Windows Mobile based devices in the US, the iPod Touch with useful Wi-Fi capabilities, the Wi-Fi iTunes store, movie rentals, and by the end of the month a software developers kit.  There is already a vibrant hacker community for the Touch. 

MS still hasn't caught up with the 5.5G iPod (and upgraded 5G) introduced in 2005.  No Movies, no audiobooks, no tv shows, no games, no gapless playback, no contact and calendar syncing, no notes, no clock , and they got rid of the EQ.  MS not only is catching up, they are falling further behind not only Apple, but also Sandisk, Creative, Archos, and Cowon.

[xBeRx]

"MS still hasn't caught up with the 5.5G iPod (and upgraded 5G) introduced in 2005.  No Movies, no audiobooks, no tv shows, no games, no gapless playback, no contact and calendar syncing, no notes, no clock , and they got rid of the EQ.  MS not only is catching up, they are falling further behind not only Apple, but also Sandisk, Creative, Archos, and Cowon."

Why would you even want all that on a PMP anyways? I mean, a PMP isn't a computer, nor is it a phone, I'm not going to cry because my MP3 player doesn't tell me the time or because I can't put notes in it. PMP's are for that sole purpose, to play music, not to live your life around it. Gaming consoles wheren't made to watch movies on, they where made to play games. Sure, it IS a plus that your console can play Standard / HD / BluRay DVD's but the real reason why peopel buy consoles are to PLAY games.

And yes, you're right, MS really isn't trying at all. They've gone through countless flames by PMP users and review pages such as Engadget and Gizmodo where theyv'e been told they need to get it right. Why haven't they? Hell if I know, but that doesn't mean they can't make a comeback. Microsoft didn't mess up with the Zune, hell it's there first try into the PMP market. I bet if the Zune was released before the iPod, then we wouldn't be discussing this at all. And this would be iScene, not Zunescene.

iPod just has the advantage that it came out first, FOR NOW. As said, Nintendo, PS3, and Sega all came out way before Microsoft did and the gaming industry and it's obviously over taken. This is Microsofts second year in the PMP market, give it a bit and I'm sure things will look different in the near future.

[boss]

"PMP's are for that sole purpose, to play music"

So why the hell is the zune ginormous incredibly huge screen so amazing? It's supposed to be one of the "defining" features, yet you're claiming it's worthless.

If both Microsoft and Apple had made shuffle-type devices at the same time, they both probably would have sold equally well, but that's not what happened. Wake up. Just because you only listen to music doesn't mean that all everyone does. Try being a little less ego-centric and see that other people have different needs than you. And right now, and probably long into the future, Apple is meeting those needs much better than Microsoft is.

[DaveWorld]

^^

Why would you even want all that on a PMP anyways? I mean, a PMP isn't a computer, nor is it a phone, I'm not going to cry because my MP3 player doesn't tell me the time or because I can't put notes in it. PMP's are for that sole purpose, to play music, not to live your life around it.

Why would you even want all that on a PMP anyways? Are we saying extra features on a PMP is a bad thing now?

Sure, it IS a plus that your console can play Standard / HD / BluRay DVD's but the real reason why peopel buy consoles are to PLAY games.

Sure but the added features are also important deciding factors in purchasing. The real reason we bought Cell phones years ago was to make calls, but now it's our clock, text messenger, IM/SMS, music player, calender/contact, etc. The core is still making calls but the added features sure add to it's value (if done right). The core of the iPod is still playing our music but it sure does not hurt to have all the extra features.

[scarface_74]

Why would you even want all that on a PMP anyways? I mean, a PMP isn't a computer, nor is it a phone, I'm not going to cry because my MP3 player doesn't tell me the time or because I can't put notes in it. PMP's are for that sole purpose, to play music, not to live your life around it. Gaming consoles wheren't made to watch movies on, they where made to play games. Sure, it IS a plus that your console can play Standard / HD / BluRay DVD's but the real reason why peopel buy consoles are to PLAY games.

If you don't care about anything but playing MP3's then why not just get a cheap Chinese knockoff?

[Anime]

a chinese knock off is going to be horrificly cheap, and you get what you pay for. Trust me, I have seen horrible knock offs on the indonesian black market. They break very easily.

[Socal]

You can bring up the point about Sony falling from their rise of power in the video game console wars, but with game consoles there is only one system. If thats a bust, then the company is a bust. With Apple they have multiple products. If the Touch failed, they could still fall back on the Nano, Shuffle, or Classic.

I'm not sure I would call Sony a failure just yet. Like Nintendo and unlike Microsoft Sony's game division is actually making money. Also like Nintendo, and unlike Microsoft, Sony actually has multiple game systems out there, not just one. And don't forget, both Sony's game division and Nintendo are about three times the size of Microsoft's game division in sales.

[Kaiser]

Microsoft is known for making products to compete with everyone else, aside from Windows itself, which even then has started to do.

Microsoft, used to be all about PC's and strictly PC's.

When the gaming world launched, PC's where at large for a lot of business people. Never was a computer going to be used for home entertainment, hell there was even sayings that "there will never be a computer in every home" and yet, here we all are.

The gaming world did what it did, Nintendo, Sony, and Sega all had there consoles competing with one and other at around the same times. As this went on, PC games became more and more popular, and eventually came out with the XBOX. The XBOX being a competitor in the gaming genre.

But, wait, didn't Sony, Nintendo, and Sega start around the same time, henceforth they had quite a bit of a head start in there gaming world? Looks like Microsoft had quite a gap to fill, and man has it. Other then Nintendo, I would say Microsoft did a damn good job at leaving Sony in the dust.

Just because someone has more experience then another, doesn't mean that the under dog can't win. Microsoft has shown worthy in other fields, and seeing as the Zune is only in its second year, compared to iPods lifespan since Oct 21, MS has plenty of time to bring down iPod down, just as it has other things.

If MS can over come 3 gaming consoles that had about 10 years of rep, whos to say they can't rape a silly MP3 player that's only had 7 years of rep?

MS FTW.

Microsoft has yet to beat Nintendo. Currently the Wii outsells the XBox 360 by a wide margin, and with the Blu-Ray format winning, on top of the fact that the PS3 is slowly and surely finally getting game content into their pool to garner interest in their superior hardware (and oh, it is superior), Sony's initial fumbling won't be a good stepping stone for Microsoft's gaming division much longer. What Microsoft did bring that the others couldn't seem to get quite right is the online gaming service. The difference between Microsoft vs. Apple and Microsoft vs. Sony et al is that Apple has yet to make a fatal mistake. While it hasn't been all roses, their products have yet to be stricken with serious errors and sheer lack of focus like Sony's.

Also, you're conveniently ignoring, or maybe just forgetting, that Microsoft is not the Jack of all Trades that people would like to make them out to be. They do seem to like expanding their business across as many fields as they can, but it's not all successful. Their current mad-grab for marketshare in the online search field with their attempt to acquire Yahoo! doesn't say much for their home-grown Hotmail/Windows Live initiative. If you can't beat em, buy em? Yes? With their funding, and the more ubiquitous, yet much lower hanging fruit, they can't go wrong, right?

"MS still hasn't caught up with the 5.5G iPod (and upgraded 5G) introduced in 2005.  No Movies, no audiobooks, no tv shows, no games, no gapless playback, no contact and calendar syncing, no notes, no clock , and they got rid of the EQ.  MS not only is catching up, they are falling further behind not only Apple, but also Sandisk, Creative, Archos, and Cowon."

Why would you even want all that on a PMP anyways? I mean, a PMP isn't a computer, nor is it a phone, I'm not going to cry because my MP3 player doesn't tell me the time or because I can't put notes in it. PMP's are for that sole purpose, to play music, not to live your life around it. Gaming consoles wheren't made to watch movies on, they where made to play games. Sure, it IS a plus that your console can play Standard / HD / BluRay DVD's but the real reason why peopel buy consoles are to PLAY games.

The prevailing pattern it seems is that when a big feature set is neglected, people shrug and say "Well I don't need or want those things, why should any of you?" It's best not to assume what people do or do not want, need or care about simply because you don't want or need these same things.

That said, the core functionality IS the reason why people buy a certain product, but given that many have the same core functionality, many will just go with the one that simply provides more, however superfluous you may think these things to be. When it comes down to it, it's just best to buy whatever provides the most of what you'd like to have for your money, but if one is trying to simply compare and claim one to be better than the other absolutely, while ignoring the stark differences in features, lack thereof and then ignore it all because you don't care about them, then your point will pretty much fall upon deaf ears.

[shortstraw4]

Why is everyone hating so much. People who like the zune features will buy the zune and People who like the ipod will get that. No one can say that the ipod is not threatened by the zune because the company that backs it has money to push through the hard times. Just let the market deside what is the best player and quit fighting. I have a zune and am happy with it so stop making fun of people who get one.

[Sevenfoldizm]

What some people need to realize is that it takes more than 15 months to get in the top 3 in market share.

I also don't see why some of you care so much about how their player is selling.  You bought it because it appealed to you, right?  Then why should sales matter, who gives a flying f*** if it's selling more, there is no way that can make it bad for you if you think independently.

[scarface_74]

Actually Apple introduced the iPod in October 2001 and was already #1 by the end of 2002.

http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/2003/2002winners.html

The iPod appeared on store shelves just a few weeks before Christmas 2001 and became a runaway hit even though it was a Mac only device. This past summer Apple introduced a Windows version of the player and it zoomed on to become the number one MP3 portable on the market. Capturing 15% of total MP3 player sales despite an average $400 price tag, Apple is looking at 4 million units sold since the iPod's introduction. Even Dell is selling iPod's now, which alone says a lot.

But the bigger question is, why would anyone looking for a not-iPod buy a Zune over a much cheaper Sandisk or Creative player with more features? You can praise the Z80 all you want to but 75% of the market is buying flash based players and no one is buying the Z4/Z8's hardly.

[Radiation]

I'm glad you all are keeping this fight clean.  So far no attempts to compare the Touch to the Zune! You know the fact that it is much more technologically advanced and IS the way the market is going must not factor into any rhetoric here, just a reminder. Remember that topic is taboo! shhhhhhhhhh!!!

[boyio1992]

LOL, this is hilarious. This discusion has gone from "Ipod skunks zune and you cant even compare them"   to "wii and ps3 and blu-ray are better than xbox 360 and HD DVD"

Actually Apple introduced the iPod in October 2001 and was already #1 by the end of 2002.

When the Ipod came out there wasnt any established PMP on the market. But when the Zune came out everyone had an Ipod already.

When you think about it you are all expecting MS to get right off the bat what other companys have been devoted and practicing for several years, and jumped in at the start.